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サンクトペテルブルク(Saint Petersburg)の報告
#24803: "Log players decision on using the pub AFTER all players made their choice"
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提案:次項がゲームを大きく改善すると思われる
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Currently, the log immediately shows whether players have used the pub to buy points and if so, how many. Especially in the last building phase before the end of the game it can have an impact on the other player's decision, so it is a disadvantage to buy points first. My suggestion is to wait with the logging of the points bought until all pub owners have decided on a number of points.• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Safari v13.1
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2020年 9月14日 13:33 • Tikhonov • この提案はまだ開発者によって解析されていません:
In the given table number you can see the logging in move #120 and #121 for example.
2020年 9月16日 1:00 • Marcuda • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
Interesting idea. I see you're point. I'll need to look into how to delay those messages.
2020年 9月17日 6:05 • Marcuda • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
This requires a change to the database so it's going to take a little more time to do properly.
2020年 9月26日 15:32 • ShimokitaJer • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
I'll agree this may be a good idea, but is it in accord with the original game? After all, if you were playing this in a physical space someone would need to express their intention first, wouldn't they?
2020年 9月28日 5:13 • Marcuda • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
True, but the difference here is that there is no turn order for Pub. To be most authentic it should probably force turn order for that phase, but in most cases that doesn't matter and would only slow the game down. Also, I'm not sure the rules are explicit here. Perhaps it would be relevant in Arena, but I think this approach would be best of both worlds--faster play while not giving advantage to any player.
Regardless I haven't begun this one yet :)
Regardless I haven't begun this one yet :)
2020年 9月29日 3:28 • SamHellerman • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
Rulebook is silent on this matter. In physical play, I think players just tend to choose simultaneously. One *might* wait to hear the other announce their move first before choosing, but it's a borderline cheat if they do, and of course a player who is concerned about this problem can simply refrain from announcing until both have paid.
For online, it *could* enforce a turn order, but I see nothing to support that idea in the rules at all. It could use the blue start player first, but being blue start player in the last round is (in a majority of games) probably a disadvantage to begin with. It could be the next player after the last player to "pass" (turn order just keeps going around as it was), but again, nothing in the rules to support that.
I think simultaneous selection is the way to go, and not sharing the information with other players until everyone is committed.
For online, it *could* enforce a turn order, but I see nothing to support that idea in the rules at all. It could use the blue start player first, but being blue start player in the last round is (in a majority of games) probably a disadvantage to begin with. It could be the next player after the last player to "pass" (turn order just keeps going around as it was), but again, nothing in the rules to support that.
I think simultaneous selection is the way to go, and not sharing the information with other players until everyone is committed.
2020年10月 7日 19:40 • Supergravity • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
In our group, we make use of the pub an ordinary action (much like use of the observatory). This eliminates the turn-order ambiguity, but it does make the pub very slightly less valuable b/c sometimes you would need the blue-round income to fully use it.
2020年10月 8日 8:57 • SamHellerman • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:
That does make Pub less useful, and has some weird effects. You don't want to allow a "use then upgrade" loophole, so you'd have to gray out (IRL, flip) the Pub to make sure it isn't upgraded for a while. But then when does it become upgradeable again? To stay similar to the real rules, that would be as soon as aristocrats are dealt, but then your Pub and Observatory are unflipping at different times.
Main issue though, being able to funnel blue income straight into the Pub is useful and imho shouldn't be lost even as an option.
Main issue though, being able to funnel blue income straight into the Pub is useful and imho shouldn't be lost even as an option.
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