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スチームローラーズ(SteamRollers)の報告

#49838: "Addition of undo function(steamrollers)"

implemented: この提案は実行されました

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スチームローラーズ(SteamRollers) #205930062

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提案:次項がゲームを大きく改善すると思われる

どうしましたか?以下から選んでください

提案:次項がゲームを大きく改善すると思われる

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#	Status	Votes	Game	Type	Title	Last update

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2021年Oct3日 8:35 • sarasa1a • この提案はまだ開発者によって解析されていません:

2021年Oct3日 15:50 • myriam9456 • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

I'm not sure that is necessary. The game as been specifically design to avoid the need of undos/confirms. In your example, when you are laying down tracks, you clearly need to choose which way the track goes, as the hex only turns darker and the choices of path appear on the left (see imgur.com/a/b7cd19T).

Also, to avoid choosing a certain pathway by mistake, the result of the choice is previewed on the track, leaving no doubt about the result of the construction (see imgur.com/a/9ZoFYdG).

What do you think?

2021年Oct3日 15:55 • myriam9456 • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

Sorry, the links in the above post are imgur.com/a/b7cd19T and imgur.com/a/9ZoFYdG.

2021年Oct3日 17:10 • sarasa1a • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

In other BGA tile placement games (eg Carcassonne), you may have felt uncomfortable because you are accustomed to placing and then rotating and confirming.
In recent BGA games, undoable games have become mainstream, and I thought that Yucata could also undo, which made me feel inconvenient.

2021年Oct3日 17:45 • myriam9456 • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

I completely understand your point!

However, I would argue that it is not really a tile placement game, as it is more a drawing game. When you click an hex to draw, you can still choose to do another thing (improve engine, etc.), which works as a implicit undo. However, when you actually choose which drawing will go there, you are commiting to it and it acts as an implicit confirmation. You are previewing what your choice will look like so at that point you know exactly what will be the impact of choosing that. Adding confirmation over that would seem to me as breaking the flow of the game.

Yucata indeed have undos and confirmation but these seems to be built in into the framework (which is not the case in BGA) and I personally find this process very annoying and cumbersome as it is slowing the flow of the game.

Unless we find a use case where undo and confirmation is absolutely necessary, I would not implement this.
Are you okay with that choice?

2021年Oct4日 6:51 • GTSchemer • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

I think undo/cancel/confirm/restart are very important even though they may seem redundant. The main important reason is mobile BGA app gaming, which is where I very often play BGA. An entire game may be ruined if I accidentally touch the wrong road shape while trying to zoom or scroll, for example. I had to restart at least one solo attempt because of this.

Last but not least, I speak from experience that BGA players simply expect that on most games now, and it can become very frustrating to not realize a touch will end your turn.

For other comparisons, Railroad Ink is roll and write (has undo/confirm/restart) and Welcome To is flip and write (has confirm/restart, with an optional countdown to automatically confirm).

2021年Oct4日 7:19 • GTSchemer • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

I will also add that after trying SteamRollers on my desktop in Firefox, I still kept making mistakes. Even after maybe 5 games, I keep forgetting that clicking an action tile will waste my die if I already had the action tile (merely protecting it), or I might click the wrong rail hex and lock it into the map, or I might use the flip die symbol but then want to change my mind after realizing my train is the wrong power etc.

2021年Oct5日 8:28 • Pompkin • 開発者はこの提案に対して詳細を求めています:

I agree with the developer that the game will get quite clunky if confirm is added. Haven't played on the mobile gaming app though so can´t speak for that.

2021年Oct6日 1:48 • myriam9456 • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:

I feel that I may have only consider my own experience with BGA, which is desktop + real time play. I understand that the story is completely different when playing on mobile (errors more frequent, no tooltip or hover preview) or turn-base (flow slowed by confirmation less of a concern) and that these 2 probably come together often.

I still wouldn't implement it for desktop (maybe as an option) but would be willing to implement it for mobile.

I would probably add a confirmation in cases where a player buys an action tile he already owns, I'll create another suggestion to track that specifically

2021年Oct6日 4:41 • GTSchemer • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:

Optional confirm is great because it lets desktop people who want it to still use it, but allows it to be turned off (e.g. by default if you prefer).

2021年Oct11日 1:31 • Gilson Segundo • 開発者はそれが良い考えであることに同意し、それに取り組むつもりです:

This is a great game, but it really needs an undo or confirm function. A wrong placement can end an entire game and discourage you from ending the game. Especially because I can't build on top of an already made track.

2021年Oct16日 23:01 • myriam9456 • この提案は実行されました:

I added confirmation for all moves that are irreversible. It is a new game option that is disabled by default.

2021年Oct16日 23:57 • myriam9456 • この提案は実行されました:

Thanks to GTSchemer for pointing our that this should be a player preference instead of a game option, I've moved that to player preference.

2021年Nov9日 22:31 • tcbscott • この提案は実行されました:

I was going to second having an undo, now after reading this, I see it's an option, I'll try it next game, but maybe it should be default to on. I got messed up in my last 2 games at some point, accidentally clicking on a tile, thinking that is the one I want, then I'll rotate it.

2021年Nov10日 0:04 • tcbscott • この提案は実行されました:

I didn't realize there were game-only preferences, most games I have played on here have a gear icon in the players score area that you click for things like this game only preferences.

2022年Sep21日 18:57 • Doooot • この提案は実行されました:

I really think there should be a undo as default, I was sure I had selected the right pattern but it wasn’t and now it was wrong and movement useless

ibb.co/qyLhdBK
ibb.co/WzVNG0s

2022年Dec12日 0:06 • Varianor • この提案は実行されました:

I would absolutely vote for an Undo option that defaults to "ON" please! I just tried this and misplaced a tile. I didn't know that there was an Undo option or I would have enabled it first.

2024年Aug29日 1:08 • Plants2024 • この提案は実行されました:

It needs an undo, not everyone is visual and it helps people to lay the best track and also if they accidentally click on the wrong track. I would like an undo button too.

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#49838: "Addition of undo function(steamrollers)"

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