#118071: "Cards should not be "Self-destruct" when can't pay to summon/placed"
どうしましたか?以下から選んでください
どうしましたか?以下から選んでください
同一内容の報告がないか、ご確認ください
もしそうなら、このレポートに投票してください。投票の多いレポートから調査されます!
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詳細
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• もしあれば、画面に表示されたエラーメッセージをコピー&ペーストしてください
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• 何をしたいか、何をしたか、何が起きたかを説明してください
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• あなたの言語の代わりに、表示されている英語の文章をコピー&ペーストしてください。 もしこのバグのスクリーンショットがあれば(素晴らしい!)、Imgur.com等を使ってアップロードし、リンクをコピー&ペーストしてください。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• このテキストは翻訳ページで翻訳可能になっていますか?もしそうならば、24時間以上前に翻訳されていますか?
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• 何を意味するのか、簡単に理解できるようにあなたの提案を正確かつ簡潔に説明してください。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
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• ブロックされたときの表示は何でしたか(空のスクリーン?一部のみのゲームインターフェイス?エラーメッセージ?)
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• BGAで正しく実装されていないルールはどの部分ですか?
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• ルールの間違いはゲームのリプレイで確認できますか?そうであれば、行動番号は何番ですか?
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• やりたかったゲームアクションは何ですか?
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• このゲームアクションを引き起こす為に何を試みましたか?
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
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• これを行おうとしたときに何が起こりましたか?(エラーメッセージ、ステータスバーメッセージ、他)
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• どの段階でこの問題が起こりましたか?(画面の指示はどうなっていましたか)
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• ゲームアクションを行おうとしたとき、何が起こりましたか?(エラーメッセージ、ステータスバーメッセージ、他)
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• 表示の問題を説明してください もしこのバグのスクリーンショットがあれば(素晴らしい!)、Imgur.com等を使ってアップロードし、リンクをコピー&ペーストしてください。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• あなたの言語の代わりに、表示されている英語の文章をコピー&ペーストしてください。 もしこのバグのスクリーンショットがあれば(素晴らしい!)、Imgur.com等を使ってアップロードし、リンクをコピー&ペーストしてください。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. -
• このテキストは翻訳ページで翻訳可能になっていますか?もしそうならば、24時間以上前に翻訳されていますか?
Example #489427696 Move71
snipboard.io/PUcwsQ.jpg
• あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
-
• 何を意味するのか、簡単に理解できるようにあなたの提案を正確かつ簡潔に説明してください。
According to "bss_comprehensive_rules":
10-6-6 The player summoning the card moves a number of cores equal to the summoning cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the summoning cost.
10-6-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player summoning the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve, or both.
10-7-6 The player placing the card moves a number of cores equal to the placing cost from their field, their reserve, or both into their trash. This is called paying the placing cost.
10-7-7 The card is placed on the field, and the player placing the card places enough cores onto it to fulfill the cost of its lowest level, or more if they wish. These cores can come from their field, their reserve or both.
A card should not be "Self-destruct" from hand when the player cannot pay for it cost. Insteaad, the player should not able to summon the card. This Also applies to Nexus. • あなたのブラウザは何ですか?
Mozilla v5
報告履歴
#489427696 Move56
snipboard.io/LYr3VK.jpg
Well, the rules state that the card is revealed first (10-6-3), then the cost is determined. To me the implementation here seems correct.
I updated the payment button's text after a burst effect. It will now simply show "Reset"
destroyed. When a spirit or nexus owner’s actions or cost payments result in a change
in the number of cores on the card or a change in the LV1 cost of the card, and
consequently the number of cores on the spirit or nexus becomes insufficient for LV1,
that spirit or nexus is considered to be self-destroyed. Effects which trigger when a
card is destroyed and effects which substitute some other management for destruction
do not activate under these circumstances.
9-4-2-3 When a spirit owner’s actions or cost payments result in a change of level or BP of
the spirit, and consequently the spirit is destroyed as a result of its BP becoming zero
or less, that spirit is considered self-destroyed.
10-1-1-1 Some destructions are called self-destructions, which are distinct from regular
destructions. If a cost payment or some other player action by the card owner such as
moving cores around during their main step results in the LV1 cost of a card no
longer being fulfilled, the destruction of that card is considered self-destruction.
Effects which would apply to destroyed cards, or apply when cards are destroyed, are
not applied in the case of self-destruction.
In the rule, only "results in the LV1 cost of a card no
longer being fulfilled" seek as "self-destruct". None of them metion about what if the player can't pay for playing a card.
10-6-3 is to determine the step of the progress. Since it is a TCG and there will be a lot of effect and FAQ things about how things progress.
Saying like "when 2 spirit in BP battle destory together how should the brust effect goes. " This type of minor issue that are not clear enough in the rules are waiting for FAQ. And 10-6 is something like to try to make things clear.
However, the point about the card having to self-destruct due to not having enough core to fulfill level 1 after paying the cost is correct.
(But it's just that most people wouldn't do this, as there is no hand card limit in the game, and such an action is unnecessary. So, if we could undo this, that would be better.)
boardgamegeek.com/thread/3272991/article/44025576#44025576
Normal player's view.
Thank you for your ongoing valuable contribution.
Let's consider a RL game. Any card can be placed on the playmat. Nothing will tell you in advance that your cores are insufficient. That's something players need to learn to calculate. Here, we are trying to emulate this environment.
Not being able to pay for a card is equivalent to it not having at least level 1.
What should happen to a card that you can't pay if it's not self-destruction?
[q]Some destructions are called self-destructions, which are distinct from regular destructions. If a cost payment or some other player action by the card owner such as moving cores around during their main step results in the LV1 cost of a card no longer being fulfilled, the destruction of that card is considered self-destruction.[/q]
It has already make it clear that only if "results in the LV1 cost of a card no longer being fulfilled", and those reasons can be:
1. cost payment.
2. some other player action by the card owner such as moving cores around during their main step.
ONLY RESULTS IN THE LV1 COST OF A CARD NO LONGER BEING FULFILLED !!!
Nothings tells that if a card you can't pay for calling self-destruction !!!
Why do you add your personal opions to a game that already has complete rules?
I had a conversation about this with an official BSS judge. You are right. Here are the two scenarios and their outcomes:
1. Card is revealed -> cost is too high -> card must go back to hand (opponent got valuable insight)
2. Card is revealed -> cost can be payed -> cost must be payed
This is less punishing than players needing to take back a card and also less prone to implementation errors.
Note that the cost check does not ensure that there will spirits will be able to reach level 1.
Also, this might mean spirits would need to be destroyed as their cores need to be removed during payment.
This is by the rules as a revealed card must be payed if able to.
報告に書き加える
- 他のテーブルID/行動ID
- F5キー(ページの再読込)で問題は解決されましたか?
- 問題は何回も起こりましたか?毎回 起こりますか?ランダムに起きますか?
- もしこのバグのスクリーンショットがあれば(素晴らしい!)、Imgur.com等を使ってアップロードし、リンクをコピー&ペーストしてください。
