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グレートスプリット:華麗なる分配(The Great Split)の報告

#110003: "Randomize seat order when playing a rematch "

implemented: この提案は実行されました

どういった内容ですか?

グレートスプリット:華麗なる分配(The Great Split) #458498070

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提案:次項がゲームを大きく改善すると思われる

どうしましたか?以下から選んでください

提案:次項がゲームを大きく改善すると思われる

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#	Status	Votes	Game	Type	Title	Last update

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2024年 1月 8日 18:51 • awfullbored • この提案はまだ開発者によって解析されていません:

This is only my second game, so I can't speak to how consistent this issue of non-random seat order is

2024年 1月 8日 18:54 • Kayvon • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

What you're describing is a problem with the site, not a bug with the implementation with the game itself.

As game developers, we can control aspects of the game's specific implementation. We're not BGA employees, so we have no access to configure servers, elo ranking, turn timeouts, connectivity, etc.

Closing as not a game bug, but feel free to file a bug on the site level if this is a recurring problem for you.

2024年 1月 8日 18:55 • Kayvon • この提案は実行されました:

Having said that, I believe the site alredy does what you're requesting when you do a rematch, provided you do an actual rematch without just starting a table from scratch, so maybe this should be marked as implemented?

2024年 1月 8日 19:53 • awfullbored • この提案は実行されました:

> What you're describing is a problem with the site, not a bug with the implementation with the game itself

That may be, but bear with me as I think I've found something worth trying. Specifically it looks like you have a variable available to you as devs:

> I believe the site already does what you're requesting when you do a rematch...maybe this should be marked as implemented?

No, we did make this game with the rematch button, and it did claim in the log that "Rematch with the exact same players detected: player order has been swapped." But, this is not true, they put us in the same seats. [This forum post](forum.boardgamearena.com/viewtopic.php?p=157139#p157139) says that what that message really means (contrary to its plain English) is that the player positions are identical but the first player has rotated by one. For a simultaneous-action game such as this, that means nothing changes at all. :(

Another message in that thread suggests that you can disable this rotation behavior: en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Game_meta-information:_gameinfos.inc.php#Disable_player_rotation_in_case_of_rematch

> // When doing a rematch, the player order is swapped using a "rotation" so the starting player is not the same
> // If you want to disable this, set this to true (even if the comment in your game file say the opposite).
> 'disable_player_order_swap_on_rematch' => false,

2024年 1月 8日 19:57 • Kayvon • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

Okay, so we can disable it, but we still can't do what you're asking because the game has no way of knowing if it's a rematch.

What would you like changed within the game's implementation given that we have no way of knowing whether this is a rematch?

2024年 1月 8日 20:24 • awfullbored • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

My understanding, which may be incomplete, is that when BGA stops trying to deterministically guarantee that every player gets an equal number of games in first, second, third, etc. turn order, that it should revert to randomly placing players in seats.

I may have that wrong, but at the very least swapping order is useless for this game, if not actively counterproductive.

Here are some other threads I dug up about this:

forum.boardgamearena.com/viewtopic.php?p=45229#p45229 shows when it was originally implemented, mainly to appease players of 2p games, but affecting everyone

forum.boardgamearena.com/viewtopic.php?p=46949#p46949 shows the same site-wide dev defending the deterministic ordering, on the grounds that lots of people asked for it (linking back to the first thread).

But again, in the case of The Great Split, there is no upside to this turn order rotation, so IMO `disable-player-order-swap = True` will be a big improvement for your players.

2024年 1月 8日 20:27 • awfullbored • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

(And you may have already seen in the linked forum threads, the first game to disable this was 7 Wonders, a game with very similar seat mechanics to yours)

2024年 1月 8日 21:13 • Kayvon • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

I'm following what you're saying about it being both useful and desireable. I feel you've maybe overlooked my previous response: we still can't do what you're asking because the game has no way of knowing if it's a rematch.

Your second link even supports what I'm saying: This is controlled by BGA, not by individual game implementations.

What would you like changed *within this game's implementation* given that we have no way of knowing whether this is a rematch?

2024年 1月 9日 22:01 • awfullbored • 開発者はそれは良い考えではない、あるいは費用対効果が低すぎると考えています:

I regret my choice of a title. I just want the most random seating possible, whether the game is created with the rematch button or not.

One step towards this goal is to turn off this (IMO ill-conceived) seat rotation feature. I suspect that would randomize all seatings, which is what I prefer, but even if it only shuffled us around some of the time, that would be an improvement.

2024年 1月10日 1:11 • Kayvon • この提案は実行されました:

I've modified disable_player_order_swap_on_rematch. I'm sure whether this will have the effect you're hoping for, but if it does then I hope it works better for you.

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#110003: "Randomize seat order when playing a rematch "

どういった内容ですか?

どうしましたか?以下から選んでください

どうしましたか?以下から選んでください

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